The Profit Builder Unscripted

The Courage to Change: An Inspiring Journey

• Vicki Suiter • Episode 28

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In this inspiring episode, my guest Bill Englehart shares his personal journey from working under the shadow of fear to finding joy in his accomplishments.

As a successful recruiter, Bill seemed to have it all—promotions, respect, and a high-performing team.

Yet, he reveals that his motivation stemmed not from a love of his achievements, but from a deep-seated fear of criticism. This fear, rooted in his strict childhood experiences, drove him to excel in his career.

I found Bill’s story relatable in this way, and thought you might too…

Bill's story is a powerful reminder of the importance of self-awareness and the courage to embrace true motivations.

Listen to the episode to hear more about Bill’s journey from fear to fulfillment and discover how his lessons in self-awareness can inspire your own path.

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If you love listening to this podcast, please leave a review in Apple Podcasts.


welcome back to the profit Builder unscripted today we're talking about how being a better Observer of ourselves and our experience can completely transform how we live our lives all right let's jump in I'm so grateful to have my guest bill anglehart with me here today to share his story of an event that happened in his life that positively changed really how he saw his life and how he managed his career and how it really impacted so many different areas of his life and is you know I I just think that people sharing their stories is so powerful as a way of us a not letting us know that we're not alone that we um that we all have this thread of shared Humanity that is helpful for us to know that other people have experienced some of the same challeng es or struggles that we have and I also think that it's fun to hear people's stories and how their breakthroughs have happened for them and how that can sometimes Inspire and Empower us in our own lives so um I'm going to go ahead and jump in and introduce Bill Bill thank you thanks for being here thank you for being a guest and would you just tell before we kind of jump in and I start asking you start sharing your story can you tell people just a little bit about you and your background sure well I'm from Chicago Cub fan but uh I spent the first uh my first career was in human resource management that's what my undergraduate degree was in and I started off as a Head Hunter and I did that for many years and then I moved over to corporate America and became a director of recruiting a employee relations manager an HR director and finally I ended up as an international Human Resources Director for a Fortune 50 company where I was an expat so I lived in London and we had offices in Spain Norway Germany and the UK and that was like the Highlight for me in that career was be able to get that job do that job and I was just Overjoyed being able to do that but I I was about 40 years old at that time and I'd pretty much done everything that I wanted to do in that career and I know it would be easy to continue to do what I was doing it wasn't like I didn't enjoy it anymore but I just pretty much had reached the Max and for me personally I didn't want my life to be a rerun you know just doing the same thing over and over just for the money and I felt like I done very well up until that point in time so I retired from the corporate world at 40 and then I was deciding well what am I going to do next and I was very involved with my Unity Church uh back in Kansas City uh for many years taking classes Etc and I talked to my Minister and said you know I think I'd like to go into the ministry and to become a Unity Minister because a lot of the principles that I used in business that helped me retire by time I was 40 were principles I really wanted to share with everyone and I felt like that would be a really you know great application to be able to do that so I became Unity minister in uh 2005 graduated from the Seminary and ended up out in uh Marin County California leading yes leading unity in Marin uh had like 400 members you know very successful Church Northern California uh i l that and did that for 13 years and then I retired from platform Ministry I still do some Ministry I write for Unity and occasionally do services or perform ceremonies that kind of a thing but I retired from platform Ministry and so you could really say I retired from all you know what you would pre you know consider work uh when I was 58 years old and so since then I've retired moved to uh Tucson Arizona and life is good so that's where I'm at now it's nice and warm yeah a little bit warmer than Kansas for sure which is where I'm at now so one of the how I got to know you was when you were a minister at Unity of Marin and um just I I think the world of you and it was part of you know I was delighted when we had the opportunity to reconnect here in Kansas City not long ago and I was reminded of the fact that you are one of the best story tellers I have ever known um you know from the pulpit you always had this really lovely way of bringing message through the um human aspect of just being a human being um through story and um and bringing uh spiritual learnings and teachings through that and I I always admired and appreciated that about you so I'm very excited to have you as a guest today and to share your story and um it so it would you just you know begin tell people about what so what was what was that moment in your life right and you and I chatted a little bit a few weeks ago about you know there's lots of moments there lots of things that sometimes uh happen in our life that change us or impact Us in some significant way um but what is the story that for you that you're inspired to share with us today about what was a moment that or an event that changed you in some significant and Powerful way well as you said you know life is full of lots of moments you know lots of things that you know cause us to awaken to what's really up for us and how we're going to really live our lives and I guess as I was thinking about this uh I'm going to come at it from a perspective of more than just an event but an Awakening that's happened and this was you know while I was still in business but I remember being working downtown Chicago as a I'd been a Head Hunter and I got hired away from the head hunting company that I worked at I was one of the top producers there and I end up going to work for keer financial services and I was the uh recruiter and I was really excited and I worked really hard we had three recruiters and one of them resigned she relocated and so the company asked me to do her job and my job at the same time I'm like no problem you know and I did it but as I was doing it I really started to awaken to what is my motivation and when I was a kid growing up I grew up in a family where corporal punishment was the rule you know it's not anymore but you know it you lived in fear of making a mistake you know or doing something wrong wrong because it would end up with corporal punishment and so as I was working and working really really hard and I was trying to understand what's my motivation and when I really peeled it back it was about doing so well that I would avoid criticism doing so well but I would avoid any kind of punishment you know that was really based on you know what happened in my childhood so I wasn't so motivated by the Joy of accomplishment is I was the fear of being criticized doing something wrong so can I ask you just a question because it's an interesting thing when you said um that you were considering or thinking about what was your motivation and when I first heard that I thought oh that's interesting um that one would ask that question at that point in their life that's not a question that everybody would ask but as I and as I hear you say that part of you was looking at is it true that what you were looking at was what's my what's the experience I'm having and like kind of like just noticing what was driving you to be a particular way in your job I think that's exactly the way it unfolded and I still remember I was working so hard and everyone was I was getting promoted right and left everything was great like but I wasn't I was again avoiding criticism versus enjoying the ride and feeling great about the accomplishment and I think at one point I used to bring a six-pack of cocacola to the office and I'd be drinking you know caffeine like crazy and a particularly challenging day and I got a headache you know from all the caffeine and all the pressure that was happening and again from the outside nobody would have known they were said Bill he's you know being promoted he's making more money everything looks great but I knew from the inside that there that just wasn't right you know that I was more about avoiding criticism than I was about the idea of just enjoying the accomplishment and doing what it is that I was doing so can I ask another question I'm sorry so how did you know you weren't enjoying it like besides the day that you got the headache from too much caffeine like what was the experience you were having well let's say I'd get promoted or that'd give me a big raise and I'd feel relief I'd be like I'm not in trouble oh you know I'm not doing any I didn't do anything wrong you know was kind of that would come up for me versus wow you know I really earned it and and I've really enjoyed it so I could really see those things start to happen and one thing it's going to seem like it's out of left field but I guarantee I will draw it back back as a Storyteller to make sense is I was in Japan many years ago and I don't speak Japanese I me speak a few words but I was traveling all throughout Japan and I went to this little outdoor restaurant and when I'm at the outdoor restaurant uh the waiter comes over and I not speaking Japanese I had special requirements being a vegetarian that I needed to be able to communicate to any restaurant I went to and I had a little piece of paper that a friend of mine wrote in Japanese I'm a vegetarian I do not eat fish chicken or meat and so I I felt like oh I'm I'm really smart I'll just show that so I get to this restaurant I'm sitting down and I you know kind of looking at the menu and the waiter comes over and I show them a little piece of paper and he looks at it he reads it and then he yells out to the kitchen you know this is an outdoor restaurant the kitchen you know ways away and like the whole restaurant stops because I'm the only Guin you know the only white person there and they're wondering what is going on over there and the uh dishwasher ends up coming out who speaks a little bit of English and I'm excited about that so I show him the little piece of paper he reads it he goes ah vegetarian cool and I'm like oh great you know I'm totally set they know and so now I'll order I'll just point to something and so I do and I'm feeling really good and then the waiter comes back and he puts a plate in front of me and I look at it and it doesn't have a tail on it doesn't have a head on it but it pretty much looks like a fish to me now I don't have the vocabulary I don't have a a little note that says is this a fish so I'm like how what am I gonna do now and uh I'm thinking and I I call for the waiter and he brings the the uh the guy back out and he doesn't speak good enough English for me to get this across so I I look and there's a koi pond that's right here in the restaurant so I get up I bring him over to the koi pond and I point to the fish and of course the whole restaurant is watching you know they wonder what the hell am I doing and then I come over to my plate and I point to that and then I do the universal you know fish and he goes oh yes that's a fish but you don't have to eat it and I'm like oh my God for for those of you that aren't vegetarians you know in most countries you say that and they will never bring you chicken fish or meat but it just happened in the culture of Japan they thought it was interesting that I was sharing I was vegetarian but it didn't change anything about what it is they were going to end up giving me and I just I had the biggest laugh about it and then I also Al thought about it and I said well how many things show up on the plate of my Consciousness or in my experience and just because it shows up doesn't mean that I have to eat it it doesn't mean that I have to get triggered by it if it's something that's different than what I'm used to and so hold on to that to that idea of getting fed something but you don't have to eat it when I first went to the United Kingdom and became an expath HR Director out there was basically because I had all this recruiting experience we're going to expand the business in in Europe first day I get there I just put my briefcase down I'm like I'm finally an expat this is what I've always wanted I'm at my desk looking out the window I'm like oh this is awesome I'm not there 10 minutes when the head of trading it was an energy Trading Company when he came in and he introduced himself and he goes oh bill you must be the new HR person I just want to let you know I think you should fire everyone in HR immediately I mean right off this and now that was being fed something right and there was a time in my life if I was being driven by fear like I was earlier in my career wanting to avoid criticism or anything I don't know what I would have said I I definitely the fear would have taken over and I what am I going to do and but I I didn't treat it like that I remember the fish story and so I'm like he's he's giving me this experience and he's saying here's what I want you to do and I told him his name was Steve and I said well Stephen you may be right but you know I've only been here like 15 minutes and it usually takes me at least an hour to make that kind of decision he didn't know what to make of me at that point he was because he was used to being the bully and he got his way you know at this office and this part of the company he was like the top dog and nobody ever you know teased him or anything else and I think he he stood back and I said you've got a guy you're interviewing this afternoon why don't I just come I want to see what you how you do it so I go and I sit in with him and about 10 minutes in he's talking about the markets Etc but we don't know anything about the guy's interviewing so I just cut him off and then I do the interview just right away I just took it over and by the time it was done and I walked guy downstairs and I came back up I was his best friend because he was like oh my God you really know what you're doing Etc and now if I would have bought into the fear I wouldn't have joked with him at the start and I would have been much more I probably wouldn't have said anything in his entire interview because I'd have been afraid of offending him but when I knew that I'm just going to enjoy what it is that I'm doing and I know what I'm doing and this is this is a skill that I I have I was able to do that and just an interesting side note after he he took me out to dinner Etc I actually meet the HR department I meet him there's half a dozen people and I said let me guess who your most difficult client is and they're they're all looking at each other go I said it's Stephen the head of trading and they're all like oh my God how did you know and I said well here all you need to know is you never have to deal with him again I'll deal with them 100% of the time you know they thought Mana from Heaven you know came because I was able to elate all their fears and their frustrations about dealing with this one guy and again it was all based on approaching it from the place of just because somebody wants to Dish something up to you that you don't like and maybe that's a client you know that's being totally unreasonable or a supplier or your trying to negotiate for something to be able to come at it from a place of joy and a place of mutual benefit that that can solve a myriad of problems and a lot of it comes down to how do we how do we interpret something that's different than what we're used to living in the UK every American I meet would say oh they drive on the wrong side of the road and I'm like no they drive drive on the opposite side of the road to what we do in the United States that doesn't make it wrong it's being able to be with people where they are and trying to take that judgment that can really get in the way of us having a really good experience with a client a customer A supplier that if we're you layering on judgments and saying what's right and what's wrong that that really gets in the way versus being able to be much more accepting of what is and sometimes you do things so I have a question for you I'm so I'm listening to you and you started this story talking about this moment that you had as you were being promoted in your career and noticing that there wasn't a lot of satisfaction or joy in what you were doing and that um you you started to ask yourself the question huh what's that about like why am I why am I not finding the Joy or the appreciation in it and you and you shared that you had this you know as you started to contemplate it you realized that your motivator was one of avoidance of pain or avoidance of being criticized or avoidance of doing something wrong I okay so tell me so here's what I'm really curious about one is and I've been thinking about this since you since you sort of changed the direction of the story so I'm really curious about is there's something that as you had that realization had you make a different Choice So what had you make a different choice and what was the different choice that you made that had you like so as I listen to you share those other stories about being an expat being you know this kind of this bully guy who is the head of investing or being in the Japanese restaurant where you realized you know you you had to accept that you you you got served something but you didn't have to eat it um tell so if you could share with us I'm really curious about the first part about like all right what was that moment like you you had this realization but what had the realization sort of land with you and what did you do to shift or change that for yourself what was the yeah what was the thing that had you change that and how did it change because I'm I'm hearing a little bit about like the kind of the after effect of how you had this you have this really wonderful ability to be able to hear or to be in situations that are not not ideal situations right or challenging moments where you could sort of find the grace in it but something changed in you back then that allowed you to interact with those situations that you did then what was it that changed in you well from the outer you wouldn't have known anything changed sure because I was still a high performer things were going great but what really changed was what was going on inside of me it was the self-awareness of how I was responding to what was happening or reacting to what was happening versus responding to it and I sat down with myself and and really went back and said where is this coming from what is this old tape and that's what it brought me back to my childhood experiences and I decided I did not want to live like that I said that is not where I'm going to go forward for the rest of my career living in fear or criticism that I'm going to actually have more faith and put all the all the energy I have into doing the best job that I can and feel really good about it and make that be what was going to be impacting my life and so again from the outside you would have known the difference but to me it made a world of difference having that realization yeah okay thanks so um as I listen listen to you say that one of the things that I you know I often think to myself is that our ability to be able to observe ourselves excuse me or observe as you did you know those years ago of being able to observe our thinking being able to observe like what you know you said like what's my motivator but it's like being able to observe what are the thoughts running in my head what are the pictures showing up in my head like being being able to notice how do I feel right being able to observe like wow like I'm I'm not having an experience of Joy I'm having sort of an experience of angst or it's not enough like because I can relate to that I've had to like you know I have those moments in my life too where I've had to like that ability to be able to just sort of rather than just keep driving and ignoring the unpleasant feeling like stopping and looking at and notic ing the unpleasant feeling or the weird nasty thoughts that we have in our head or the weird thoughts we have in our head like that ability to be able to notice gives us more choice in the moment right it gives us that ability like if we can observe it we can do something about it um so uh and I'm and I'm guessing for you and I know this is certainly true for me that it's an ongoing process right it is it doesn't right yeah like that we know noticed it and that in that moment for you noticing it I would guess that once you noticed it and really started to ask the question even though you made a choice it would you say and I again I just speak from my own experience that when I've notice something and I made a choice but I'm going to have a different experience or I don't want to live from that place anymore that it's a it's a continual process observe choose observe choose like and until something else becomes the more predominant experience rather than this less than pleasant experience or less than useful internal dialogue we have about ourselves I agree with that 100% And to me it was really be about self-awareness and once I was aware of what my motivation what I wanted my motivation to be and be able to turn in that direction being a recruiter and I know you inter you interview lots of people and whatever the I had to me it was always about being a recruiter and within that is really about understanding understanding that person and knowing there's no perfect person for a job it's you understand the Hing manager you know what he or she what they what who they are and you're trying to figure what's going to fit in with them and their team and then you're interviewing somebody and you're trying to find out is that going to be a really good match and I know some people in recruiting would you write down 50 questions and they make sure they go through every one of the questions and kind of like get an advocus out to add it all up and figure out is this the right person that self-awareness for me of the confidence that I'm going to be able to hear what it is that I need to hear and I'm also going to hear what's not said now you hear what's not said by I'm just having an open interview as a tech person or anything else I the basic you know use design Code test debug Etc so I could run through those kind of things but also I'm just getting to know that person and if you're a keen Observer of people you'll find out what they want to gloss over what they just kind of want to skip over and if you're just really open to having the experience then it's I know exactly what to you know drill down on and again it's not that I'm looking for the perfect candidate it's like okay you know you you said oh your boss loved you and then you moved right on and I would say well part of what we do is we check references so when I give your boss a call and ask him about you what's he gonna say you know and then all of a sudden it's like well uh you know maybe we didn't have that great experience but to me it really comes down to that the joy of doing what I was doing and knowing that the right imperfect information will rise to the surface and I'll be able to discern if this is the right match I'll hear what they're saying but again I I call that hearing what's not said you know what gets avoided and you can only do that if you're really in a place of confidence with yourself with the process no one nobody's going to you know pull the wool over your eyes and again that's all starts with self-awareness so if I understand myself much better and I'm really in a place of of non-judgment about who the who the person is with their background Etc I just want to find out about them and I was much more apt to hire a if I was oning college recruiting some kid that had a b average but worked all their way through school then somebody who you know didn't have to work at all and got an A average but didn't really couldn't really grock what it means to to work hard yeah so all kinds of things come to come to the Forefront so I think as we become more self-aware then we become more aware when we're having interactions whether it's recruiting or whether it's in sales uh we wanted to hire open up an office in Norway when I was in the UK and so I arranged a meeting with four people that were Traders and their manager at a uh Energy company in Norway so I went over there and I don't know what life is like in Norway for people working but just like the self-awareness piece we have to really be open and non-judgmental and listen and I think any leader or anybody in sales we have to be excellent listeners before we start selling because we don't know what their real motivation is then we're selling something that maybe they don't care about yeah and I remember in talking to them that they what I discerned leas and they didn't say specifically was they wanted to be financially rewarded based on their skills and their production versus the seniority that drove their careers in Norway and so once I hit on that and then I started being able to say okay this is how we can you know this is how we reward people and ended up hiring you know them in all five of them away from their company you know that night and it again it's all about listening and again about not be not taking a pre-judgment into the situation and that gets in the way of a lot of people is having a judgment about what's right about what's wrong instead of being just totally open yeah and being able to experience things from a different perspective maybe it's because I've traveled all over the world that every culture has got something different and it's different doesn't make it wrong and sometimes it's like wow that makes a lot of sense I don't know why we do it that way so when you think about um this you know you've had a lot of years of practice of being an observer of yourself right but that I think that becomes a sort of a habit that we have and I appreciate what you're talking about in terms of that ability that our ability to be present means that we're not only not in Judgment of somebody else but not in self-judgment as well right that that a lot of times our self-judgment can get into our way of being present in a conversation because we've got sort of this mind chatter going on um for you you for you just as a you know as a final thought about all of this is there some tip or trick that you have about um how to not how to be more present and to be more uh self-aware in the moment um to that allows you to get present and then I'm going to share my perspective on this too because I have a strategy that I use for that as well okay well now first and foremost it's about knowing thyself that you start really looking at yourself and trying to figure out well where am I coming from and how am I coming cross and am I saying things just to make it appear that I'm smart you sometimes people aren't listening because they've got the next thing in their head that they want to say that's going to say show how smart they are if we could really peel all that back and we can just really be present to ourselves and say well even if you're interviewing for a job if I get the job then it's the right and perfect job and if I didn't get the job then maybe I'm delivered you know from what would have been maybe a bad job for me and so it's really to be self-awareness first to and it could be after you have a meeting or while you're in a meeting and I remember being in a board meeting once and I as I was observing everyone I was thinking several people were like uh putting their feathers up like uh peacocks you know wan to show how smart and how important they were instead of really getting down to Let's really talk about what's happening and so every interaction we have we can have it and then we can review it by sitting down with ourselves going into the silence and saying how do I feel about that well how does it make me feel how would I like to feel and how can I get from maybe being in a place of fear so then moving over to a place of having more faith and joy and it all starts with changing our mind right I like that change your thinking change your life that's right um yeah well thank you uh just in to to piggyback on that for me um well I would agree I would concur with everything that you just said and noticing the self-judgment and not and then asking that question of what's what's my intention what's the experience I want to be creating how do I want to show up in this situation um you know for me part of it is just having some mindfulness about it um before I go into a situation or interaction even just I think I shared with you when we got on the started this this conversation I you know I said I just spent some time with myself just sitting and and going okay what like being present to this conversation what do I want to have happen here what's the experience I want to create what's the opening I want to um I want to have here uh and not like trying to preframe the content of it but more from a contextual point of view holding the space for wanting there to be an opening and to be you know to have it be serving and um so on so I think that that ability to uh to just stop and and choose from an intentional place is really powerful um I do want to interject one more thing because I think it was all that preparation for all the years all the work that I did really really paid off when I started uh volunteering at San Quenton prison I was co- facilitating a men's group of men that were serving life sentences and so I had fear about going into s Quenton I'd never been in a prison before and let alone sitting with 30 men that were all serving life sentences been in for 18 to 40 years but it all came back to me it all came to me about not judging about being with people where they are right now versus where they were or where there may be and to be able to be so open that I could call them on their [ __ ] sometimes if that's what needed to happen but I could also show them love and appreciation and you know help them to recognize within themselves that they have this this enormous power to redefine who they are in this moment so by the time they end up getting out that they'll be a changed person not just because they were incarcerated but because they become much more self-aware yeah yeah and I think that starts our ability to be able to do that with other people which is huge you know especially in an environment like that starts with our ability to be able to do that with ourselves and the less judgment we are of ourselves right the more open that we can be with other people yeah yeah Amen to that yeah Bill thank you I really appreciate you sharing yourself and sharing in your story um before we wrap up I'm going to ask my rapid fire questions so um favorite uh favorite per book personal book or podcast I'd say uh a book by uh a guy by name of Robert brummit it's called finding yourself in transition yeah so get the double Onana there it is finding your not just finding yourself in transition but finding yourself it's it's thin book Unity publication it's awesome okay great than how about business book I would say um there's a book called The Surrender experiment and it's by um an author named Michael Singer Y and he also wrote a book called The untethered Soul yes and if you really want to get it I'd read the untethered Soul first and then read the surrender experiment very spiritual Guy created an incredible business and uh I remember reading the first book and thinking oh yeah but he's with some hippie out in the woods who came up with all this then I read the next book and I'm like oh my God he than I could ever imagine so awesome thank you favorite um food or meal well as a vegetarian I'm really partial to The Impossible Burger now all right it's pretty good um what's uh what is something that you're grateful for right now right now I'm grateful for you Vicki I'm grateful that we got to connect up you know out at in Missouri after many years and be able to have this time together I really appreciate you and appreciate this opportunity yeah thank you me too me too thank you Bill I appreciate it I appreciate you thank you for sharing yourself and your story and uh for all of you who are listening I hope you found some nugget of uh you know of inspiration in this and maybe out of this conversation that we've been having here today that maybe you'll start to give some more thought to noticing and being a better Observer of yourself so that you can have a different experience in your life too all right thanks for being here and we'll look forward to seeing you next time on the profit Builder unscripted

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Vicki Suiter

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