The Profit Builder Unscripted

Letting Go of Perfect: Moving Forward with Courage

• Vicki Suiter • Episode 14

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I had a great conversation with my friend Ann Sheybani, a brilliant book writing coach, about how we often hold ourselves back because we think everything needs to be perfect before we take the next step.

Ann told this story about how she finally realized that waiting for perfection was just another way of staying stuck.

Instead of letting that fear keep her from moving forward, she learned to simplify things and take action, even when it felt messy or unfinished.

It was such a great reminder that we don’t need everything to be flawless to make progress.

If you’ve ever found yourself hesitating on a project or idea because you’re worried it’s not "just right," I think this conversation will resonate with you!

It’s a good reminder that sometimes, we just need to give ourselves permission to start—imperfections and all.

Give it a listen. I’d love to hear your thoughts!

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If you love listening to this podcast, please leave a review in Apple Podcasts.


welcome back to another episode of The Profit Builder unscripted I am super excited about today's episode where I'm interviewing an Shabani and we're talking about how do you have the courage to take action in your life on something that maybe you've made a little bit more complicated than it needs to be or maybe you've just let the head trash get in your way of moving forward all right let's jump in I'm super excited to have my guest an Shabani here today and one of the things that you know I have been asking people to do is to come on and share their stories about what is an event that's happened in your life that has influenced you in a powerful way that has changed you that has made your business or your life better in some way and um an who I've known for years was very generous to come on and share her story so Ann thank you for being here thanks for being a guest well thank you Vicki and I love being put in front of your audience and showing up on your platform so oh thanks appreciate the opportunity so you and I have known each other for about I think we met in 2017 um at heroic public speaking and um and then I had this book in me that I really wanted to write that I had not ever gotten traction of on and an is a I'm going ask you to introduce yourself in just a second but an is a is a book writing coach and she's really good at what she does and in the process of her coaching me and helping me in get my book written um I developed a great appreciation respect and affinity for you as a business person as in as a human being and so I'm just so glad to have you here and have you share your story but so before you jump into that though would you just tell people a little about you and what you do and and then we'll jump in yeah like I I think the the expression book coach has so many different meanings right be but a book coach is essentially somebody that helps um draw out an idea and develop content around it and get a final manuscript that's ready for publication so I specialize in prescriptive nonfiction and prescriptive non-fiction is a book that solves a particular problem for particular reader so that's my sweet spot so the people I tend to work with our business owners or speakers or coaches of some kind service professionals that solve a particular problem for a particular type of person then I also help people publish the book because it's great to have a polished manuscript but you kind of have to have a home for it so often times I'm the home for it at the end of The Journey too yeah yeah and you're really good at what you do I got to tell you I had hired other business uh other book writing coaches before I met you and you're so good at being able to draw out the the the essence of what it was that I really wanted to say and um yeah it just made me feel really good about what the end result was um and graciously has the book behind her on the right side me on the left side but uh the profit bed how managing margin can save your contracting business um and uh I I just I so appreciate you and and uh your skill in being able to help people draw out story so speak can I just say one thing that this book still sells stupidly well this book still sells really really well which is which is something thank you yeah yeah I'm really happy about that well you know I wrote it because I wanted to be able to contribute to people in another way besides just working with them one-on-one or through my program contractors's Collective program or through my other services like I really felt like that was a great way to be able to serve this industry and um contribute and continue to be able to bring value so um I'm I'm grateful for that because it's serving the purpose for which it was intended um I didn't write the book to be a marketing tool I really wrote the book to make a difference so I'm so glad that it does that that feels really good um all right so let's talk about you so the question on the table is what was an event in your life that has impacted you in a positive way both either in in your business or your life or both that um something that happened in your life that really changed you or changed your perspective or you see things and um I'm gonna let you go ahead and jump in and I might ask you questions along the way ask questions because I love I love this prompt I think it's a great prompt right and it really does bring out great stories in people so I I would say one of those pivotal moments um my husband and I were at dinner and we were someplace up in stove Vermont in the middle of nowhere on top of a mountain having dinner and I had recently come back from an 8 week um writer retreat in which I was diligently polishing a draft of my Memoirs I came out of University with an MFA and I'm this writer and I'm devoting all of this time and attention to working on this book and I've already spent four years six years on this book because that's what we're trying to do with Memoir or with novels were trained to just polish it polish it polish it for years on end and while I had been gone my husband decided while he was you know holding down the fort that if she's gonna have a book I should have a book and he'd gone to see Julie Julia and had seen how somebody who' been writing a Blog ends up getting a book deal and he decides you know that he was going to take this blog material and he was going to turn it into a book and he started writing and he he saw a friend of his had gotten a like a book published and he'd made the link to this publishing house and the Publishing House said absolutely will publish your book and So within this eight week period of time he had written his book and you know shortly after that he had published the book and there we were in in Vermont walking around in these looking for these outdoor shops so he could sell book because there was a related tie to outdoor shops and we were talking about this whole you know this whole where we going to put the book and how's that going to work and up comes this woman who' overheard some of our conversation at the dinner table and she came up to him and she said excuse me I don't mean to be e dropping but are you an author and he just Paul puffs up his chest and he said why yes why yes I'm an author and the entire time I'm sitting there like this Schmo has just spent eight weeks writing a book and now he's an author he's got this book and the woman immediately after she finishes fawning over him asks him if he would come and speak at her school to her audience about his book and at the time you know this was a real shift for me because I suddenly saw how having a book regardless of what's between the pages out there was an instant credibility booster it gave him instant Authority and it gave him kind of the leg up to begin speaking and then to begin coaching and to turn that book into a business and I would say his business was at the very beginning allowing yourself to free yourself from the golden handcuffs and and and create a business that you love create a life that you love and at the time be after I got over the jealousy that I felt and the that the horror that anybody could be that you know not like lack discernment of of any kind I recognized that I had a niche market because I'd gone from training for Memoir and novels I was running a writing Workshop where we were studying craft and everybody in the writing Workshop was working on novels or or Memoir personal essays and the expectation was they were going to take five years eight years of puttering on something and then the quick hit books that you create in eight weeks and you know they give you something they give you a a a boost of legitimacy for a while and you know people read it or they don't read it right but that there's something in between and that in between is how do you write a book that captures story that captures narrative that brings the reader in that takes them on a journey that allows them to fix a problem but also get to know the the the author as a human being as as a trusted guide so that naturally by the time they finish the book and they get the first solution to the problem that if they want to go deeper it would make perfect sense can I just ask you a question though so it sounds like so when I listen to the story about you here you were at this 8-week Retreat and thinking that the thing you had to do was to really work hard and have it take a really long time like that whole narrative that you're describing about it's got to be hard and it's got to take a long time um it sounds like there was something when you saw how Walt wrote a book in eight weeks and then how we monetized it and really had it like that it didn't have to be this big long difficult arduous Journey like um what how did that change when you saw that how did it change how you approached a your own writing and B how you work with people right like so there's a you know when you when you first described the story to me I was like it what I heard was wow like it really had you think about this differently than you had before what is that like what changed for you in in your Approach at that point to your own writing and then also how you work with people yeah so so I would say I still have the MFA in me so i' I still work on an art project I'm going to call it an art project like I see my Memoir as something where every word has to be right right and it just all has to be shaped right so I play with that but I also put together a really really good um how to book on how to write a book and I probably put that book together maybe in six months based on a whole bunch of other content that I had from teaching and from coaching and whatnot and I pushed that book forward because that book served as a Gateway into my world for a lot of people so for a lot of people who couldn't afford to hire me one-on-one or join any of my larger cohorts writing cohorts that book could solve problems that book could impact a lot of people that book could help a lot of people who I couldn't normally help you know on a on a daily basis and that served as a great Gateway for me so when I'm when I'm working with people you know we always is looking at the time frame we're looking at their need to tell a lot of personal story or a little personal story that there's that there's a recognition that there's a big um I would say there's a range of requirements individuals have there are those who want to become brne Brown the next brne Brown and they recognize that that's going to take a bit more time and there are those that don't have a particular interest in being a bernee brown but they do want to have a book that gets read from cover to cover that gets handed out to other people that legitimately helps people because we're probably all aware of these some of these books out there that they're not readable or they're just they're just all over the place you know they're innocent people who don't know how to put together a book so I would say it's a he the appreciation of what a client actually is looking for when I'm working with them not being a stickler to we need this to look like war in peace or gone with a wind because I would say early in my career I was probably a bit more of a stickler and an appreciation for really what does bring people into into their world what stories really do bring folks in the world and what that framework you know what the framework is and recognizing that sometimes the framework is what has to stand out and less narrative and sometimes it's more narrative less framework so I don't know if that answers the question or if it confuses it well let me well let me ask this question so as I'm listening to you it sounds like it shifted your perspective in how you work with people instead of looking at like everything has to be um like this Grand thing yeah um it started to shift your thinking and your approach to how you're working with somebody and look at all right like what is your goal right rather than well here's how you write a book you asked a different question you asked the question what's a purpose of your book what do you want to get out of it what's what's your intent what's your time frame what's your time frame good yeah like so that started to alter how you served people and as I'm I what I'm I think I'm also hearing you say is you could serve more people and you could serve them better when you could understand more what their goals were and when you could get unattached to or let go of this whole thing of it has to be it has to take a long time it has to be difficult it has to be like you know really deep and and and researched and ground through and edited and you know and I know you do all those things but there's different levels to do it am I hearing that correctly like you're hearing that correctly I you know I was just considering was working with this really really busy very very successful entrepreneur who had a who had great taste in reading so he was he loved what I would call big idea books that are heavily researched that are generally written by a journalist that you know there the index in the back the bibliography is usually half the size of the book like he loved these books and he envisioned you know having his book in the bookshelves of Barnes & Noble or at Hudson News so his vision for what he was after was Grand and this is a guy who who is so used to making money taking an idea and monetizing it usually within three to four weeks that the idea of needing to slow down and write this kind of book which is fairely involved and requires writing skill and do the research and the footnotes and the end notes like the the reality of what it would take to have this kind of book that he fantasized about was just that the two realities didn't mix so it's a matter of sitting down with someone like this and saying well here's the constraints and if this isn't going to serve your purpose and it's going to require too much time it's the wrong Vision so let's let's create a new vision and let's you know let's compromise and the compromise was appropriate for the situation yeah because until you know what something is required to write like your book is a lot more complicated than a quick how too it's a story-driven narrative with a framework and and that took time and per de ision a lot of people don't want to take the time or or think through that stuff they want something quicker and they're they're easier books there's a how-to book for instance or a quote book or you know any number of genres that are just easier to manage two things occur to me as I'm listening to you so one of them is um I'm thinking about like so my audience is construction industry right and I'm thinking about um there's a there's a definitely an artistic element to being a general contractor a subcontractor a carpenter a you know a a a metal worker a designer an architect like there's this um what's my craft right what's the thing that I do and as I'm listening to you I'm thinking you know how valuable in asking question more questions to find out what somebody really wants and then two things I heard as I'm listening to you one is you know asking more questions to find out do I is it does it really have to be my ideal you know Opus or is it that they really just want something you know down and dirty uh or something more simple right which may or may not mean that then your ideal client are not right and then secondly that if somebody wants an opus but they don't want to spend the money or the time doing it to be able to bring that dose of reality to them um yeah to to to uh yeah just bring that dose of reality or to like be able to have that conversation Italian marble kitchen sounds awesome yeah you start looking at the cost and the timeline and then it's like maybe I don't want an Italian Marvel kitchen after all I do fantasize about those all the time but yeah who doesn't so the other interesting thing for me as I'm listening to you is there's this um there's this book I it's it's it's like almost a journal that I want to create and I keep having this thought in the back of my head like ah like it's not waiting enough it's not like it's enough substantial enough it's not like you know uh I don't know whatever enough and now I'm listening to you and I'm going well maybe maybe that would be a really good thing to do maybe it doesn't have to be something big and significant cuz like I got a couple more books in me I know that um that I just haven't like uh so this conversation is good for me it's a good reminder that like it doesn't have to be big and insignificant I I love this conversation because you know like being in the publishing world I'm always watching Trends I'm always seeing what's selling and what's not selling what you know like what's rising and what's falling and I was listening to this something that had shown up on book talk talk it was somebody's somebody had created a journal about I don't know like getting in touch with your Shadow side and she'd written this journal she'd self-published it and she'd started promoting it and people started buying this book and somebody in her audience had bought this book and had used it and had gone ahead and created this entire business using This Woman's book and crediting her the book right crediting her IP yeah this book had taken off it was selling millions of copy it's the simple Journal book for getting in touch with your Shadow side and you know when when a stranger is using it and seeing the value of it than creating a business off of this it's like it's mindblowing because again not everything has to be dense it doesn't have to be you know you know thinking fast and slow which you know most of us can't ever get through because it's so you know it's so heavily researched and science-backed do you think go ahead no I just like simple works sometimes it really does the idea that the idea needs to be hookie and the problem needs to be something that people identify with having yeah okay that's good that's good good advice I'm just thinking as I'm listening to you too it's like is it that um you know even the whole thing about that it's it's got to be it's got to take a long time or it's got to be difficult to write a book um or sometimes just to do anything that's a new project that we're about to undertake I'm I'm just listening and I'm thinking you know is part of what holds us back also is that we think it needs to be perfect you know that whole thing if it's not perfect then I can't put it out there or like that fear of well that fear of it's not going to be good enough but also that fear of what if people don't like it what if people don't buy it um you know even like and I and I see that like even when it comes to sales right and doing sales and putting ourselves out there um are we engaging or are we holding back because of our fear of rection or like not being good enough or all of that all of that comes to head because when you put your ideas and your opinions and your framework and your approach to life and business on the page in black and white not everyone is going to agree with you not everyone is going to go my God you're brilliant you know and and it's and it's really hard you know like if you even if you're out on social media and you put up a post and somebody invariably who can remain somehow Anonymous will weigh in and say horrible things about your idea or about you or about your family I mean there are people out there that are pretty toxic yeah and putting a book out there like what if you get a bad review or what if somebody finds your typo or what if somebody's see that there's a mistake in there it's a challenge particularly if you're a polished human being perfectionists love me because I'm a recovering perfectionist myself you know and I'm and I have these conversations all the time throughout the process and particularly during the publishing process where things are getting refined and things have to be right and you know it's it's go time it's a very emotional period for people because the fear of being found wanting is a terrifying Feel the fear of being being rejected or criticized you know and will it happen probably yeah probably someone is g to have something snarky to say yeah but and it's hard to remember all of the people that you actually help the the people who will come up to you and say like I feel so much less alone or I feel like you get it or I feel like I've got a shot now like I see what the problem is and I didn't see it before and I now have a direction or a focus so I can fix that like we forget about the people we're helping yeah it's nature to focus on the the snarky dude you know out in the you know the audience yep I can completely relate to that I think you know I had I had gestured at writing that book for six years before I met you and really sat down and got serious about writing it and I think that you helped me bridge that gap of getting over myself in some ways like getting over that you know I had this conversation in the back of my head of you know people don't really want to read your crap and um and you really helped me get beyond that and um yeah so thank you for that and I so I completely relate to that I completely relate to um our fear of putting ourselves out there sometimes because we are afraid of being rejected it's interesting um this conversation would be surfacing this way right now because I'm in the midst of reading the book The Four Agreements by Miguel ruse and the third agreement no it's a second agreement second agreement is don't take anything personally and it's so hard for us to do and um um anyway it's just it's it's kind of but it's a good R of thumb right like other people's stuff is their stuff and not everybody's going to love our stuff and not everybody's you know it's not going to resonate with everybody but we do it for those people who we know it will resonate for the the people who it will stick for you know even for me doing this podcast right in this new format and like and just like being a little bit nervous and going well you know what it's going to stick with some people and it's not going to others or you know um so yeah I appreciate um I appreciate you are really good at helping people get Beyond um that that mind chat or that like you know negative selft talk that's a I mean that's the thing about you know writing to our people it most of the time we have familiarity with the subject that we're writing about right and like we get what the fears are we know what they look like we you know like I share them I share the fears that my clients have so there's a there's a deep appreciation for them there's a respect for them and there's always like how do we get around the fear how do we how do we keep the fear at bay how do we make it you know H how do we make the project you know small enough tenable enough doable enough so that people's energies or their you know their emotions don't take over you know that's the that's the rule of a contractor so what advice would you give somebody because you deal with this all the time right having to get people get past their head trash what what advice would you give somebody because I think it is fear I think it's fear of rejection fear of you know not being enough not good enough uh I need to be perfect like all that right what you know somebody listening to this who is about to Embark or wants to do something that they haven't done or wants to you know is making something more complicated than they need to who's holding back doing something that they want to do what piece of advice would you have to help them I think to get Beyond it yeah I think I'll go back to my original story of sitting in that restaurant with Walt my husband and thinking to myself hey I'm the writer and he's got the book and I like I can't tell you the number of people who have finally gotten off the fence and people will sit on the fence for years you know I've had people you know be being in conversation with people for a couple years before they finally decide to jump off the offence and do something about it and invariably somebody that they feel with lesser credentials or lesser credibility or you know less knowhow has has blindly gone and written a book and is getting all of the Acclaim and the attention and the impact that they want to have and the the realization that if somebody like that can do it like why on Earth can't I do it so sometimes jealousy or Envy is a great motivator it's a great motivator like who which one of us wants to admit to feeling that way right and then like when you see what it does for other people and part of it is like somebody's traveled that path somebody close nearby and you're you you know your Arena has has done it and you recognize that it's doable and you can see the benefits before your eyes and until then it's theoretical until then it's somebody selling you on it selling you on the benefits of this or this or this you see it without other people's input which allows you I think you know to kind of make a decision for yourself so I think I think that's part of it and I also think that like if if you've started a business none of us knew what we were doing when we started a business yeah we're just like so blind we just went in it and somebody like for me I would always somebody would say hey you want to do this with me and I'm like all right just naive and then it just grows on itself like I think allow yourself to be a little naive and allow yourself to be crappy at it and allow yourself to have a guide or to to work with somebody who can show you how to be good so you you get better faster and I do think like it takes me an awful long time to drop the feeling that I should be fantastic at everything I touch even if I've not practiced it yeah and it's that's that's about as arrogant as it gets to to feel like you have to be good at everything and I think to allow yourself to be a beginner and not be fantastic and to see how it plays out I just think those people get ahead a lot faster yeah a gosh I really appreciate what you just said even as I was listening to him like oh yeah like give ourselves a little bit of Grace um and yeah it's not yeah Perfection is never the goal yeah thank you yeah that was good that was good an thank you uh I love this conversation I always love talking with you um if if somebody is listening to this and they're like I want to talk to Ann some I have a book in me or whatever that I want to write how do they get a hold of you I would I would have them reach out to me at an at an anon.com and I'm sure they're going to see how my name is spelled on the podcast EP episode so it's Ann anon.com um you're always going to get me there okay we will make sure to put that in the show notes and share be awesome thank you thank you thank you thank you this has been awesome what a fun conversation and um I hope that all of you are watching and listening um uh I hope you've enjoyed something in this conversation that you can take away and and maybe uh create a little bit more grace and space in your life for uh doing the thing that you want to do and having more courage to make something maybe a little little easier a little simpler uh a little less complicated and um yeah and then those just words come back to me again like just giving yourself a little bit more grace so thanks for everybody for listening and I look forward to seeing you next time on the propit Builder unscripted

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Vicki Suiter

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